HOMEPAGE

6G NEWS PAGE........6G NEWS PAGE...........6G NEWS PAGE

THIS PAGE IS DEVOTED TO NEWS ABOUT 6G AND RAILWAY DETAILS IN AND AROUND THE LLANDUDNO JUNCTION AREA.

PLEASE SEND SUBMISSIONS THROUGH THE EMAIL LINK ON THE HOMEPAGE

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July 24th 2008.

An email from Colin Gargan is reproduced below. Many thanks for the contact Colin.

Greetings Geoff..

I typed 47555 colwyn into Google & came up with your website top of the list. I'm particularly impressed with the photos of the construction of the A55 & accompanying trains. 47555 (The Commonwealth Spirit) was my favourite haulage, had a few cabrides in it too. I can remember riding my new BMX along the A55 from Colwyn Bay to the Junction on Christmas Day 1984, bit bumpy in parts. The verity of tickets available in those days was good & at a very reasonable price. Evening rover (60p), North Wales Explorer (£3 for 7 days) & the Coast & Peaks Railtour (£8 for 7 days) where regulars of mine, I was still a teenager then. I just want to thank you for a nice trip down memory lane & I'm looking forward to moving back to the bay next year after an absence of 15 years.

Thanks again..
Colin

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July 6th 2008.

An observation by Alan Roberts is reproduced below.

Geoff,

A signaller approached me the other day regarding old style steam caps worn by drivers into diesel days instead of the issued ones.

In my railway career I remember seeing drivers wearing steam caps well into the 1980's.

They included Tommy Allen, Dennis Morris, Raymond Roberts and Kevin Aitcheson.

Also there were ones who preferred to wear their own flat caps such as R.V.Jones (Bychan), Norman Read, Norman Williams and Ifor Wynne Jones.

Nowadays its a rare occasion to see drivers wearing caps if ever they are issued anymore.

Perhaps some drivers preferred the old style caps than the new ones to wear, unfortunately I don't have any photos of drivers wearing them into the 1980's.

Alan Roberts

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June 11th 2008.

John Kirwood has sent in this information in response to the request by Tony Higgs
for any information to help his research.

Re Email from Tony Higgs, (NEWSPAGE May 24th 2008)
who is researching the history of Monument Lane engine shed (21E)

There is a lot of information about Monument Lane Shed in the book ' A LOCOMAN'S LOG, 1937-85' by Bill Alcock,
who started his railway career in Saltney, and transferred to M.L. for a few years in the late 50's.

Monument Lane also worked S.R. (short rest) jobs to Llandudno on Summer Sundays. Tony mentions Les Jones driving
trains to Llandudno on summer Saturdays in the 50's, Les Jones, nicknamed 'Cochyn'
(Anybody in Wales where Welsh was spoken was called Cochyn if they had red hair), started as a cleaner at
Llandudno Junction in 1942/43 and moved on loan to the Birmingham area when he was a passed cleaner.
( A lot of passed cleaners went on loan to the bigger sheds - Willesden, Saltney,Cricklewood and other sheds from Llandudno Junction during the winter months).
Les Jones stayed in M.L. shed, eventually ending up as deputy foreman or R.S.F. - running shift foreman.

Info about Les from T.A.Hughes (Tom Bodorgan) and Bill Price (ex 6G drivers).

Hope this will be of use to Tony Higgs.

John Kirwood.

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June 7th 2008.
The Railway Touring Company have arranged a regular steam special from Liverpool to Holyhead and return
every Sunday in August plus Bank Holiday Monday August 25th 2008. This will entail six tours during August.
The locomotives to be used are:
71000 'Duke of Gloucester'
60009 'Union of South Africa'
46201 'Princess Elizabeth'

Further details can be viewed on this LINK

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June 1st 2008.

Alan Roberts who edits the SIGNALLING pages has sent in these few memories he has of ex-6G driver Les Nevitt who passed away last year and who Alan Taylor befriended in the 60s.
(see NORTH WALES COAST STEAM page ,May 8th 2008)

Re-Les Nevitt

Les was allocated to local workings up to his retirement in the 1980's together with other drivers such as George Sheedy, Bob Jones (Bob Bychan), John Owen, Wil Hughes (Wil Gyffin), Gwilym Williams (Traws) just to name a few. Les was also keen in model railways and I can recall him telling me he had quite an extensive layout at home he constructed with his son Paul who still works on the railway,

Alan Roberts.

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May 28th 2008.

An email from Ian Boulby is reproduced below. Glad the site took you back Ian.

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the very interesting site. I lived near there in the early 1980's and the pictures brought back a lot of memories. Several of my friends and neighbours worked at the Hotpoint factory,
I remember it as a busy , thriving place , a sad day when it closed.

Regards

Ian Boulby

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May 28th 2008.

An email from Chris Evans is reproduced below. Chris has supplied much detail to this site over the last few years and has built a unique working model of Llandudno Junction station and 6G which is featured on his website (see LINKS page) Chris is appealing for photo's of the Octel trains which he needs to model accurately for his layout.
Chris also provides some information on the request by Ian McKellar (NEWSPAGE 19/02/2008) regarding 70000 "Britannia" which Ian saw on shed at 6G in July 1965 sporting a "NOT TO BE MOVED" sign.

Many thanks for the contact Chris.

Hi Geoff,

Hope you are well!

I have just been browsing your website again and noticed Ian McKellar's request for info regarding Britannia 70000 being at 6G in July 1965.

I photographed it at the end of that month (see 'North Wales Coast Steam' section) and it appeared to have been out of service for some time and probably waiting for spares from Crewe. Britannias were regulars at the Junction at this time - note that 70013 was also on the same road looking similarly neglected on the same date, although I have a photo in a book of it working north towards Carlisle on 31/7/65. Perhaps 'Britannia' was returned to traffic at about the same time.

A strange request - if anyone has photos of the Bromine and/or Chlorine tank wagons that were used on the Octel trains to Amlwch in the early 1960s I would be very interested as I need to model these as accurately as possible for my 'Llandudno Junction' layout which, incidentally, is scheduled to make a further appearance in 'Model Rail' magazine later this year.

Best wishes,

Chris Evans

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May 26th 2008.

Ex-6G man John Kirwood has emailed me in response to the appeal by Alan Taylor
(NORTH WALES COAST STEAM page... May 8th 2008)
asking for any information about a 6G driver he befriended in 1964, who he thought was named Les Nevitt.
Unfortunately as you will see from John's email Les Nevitt passed away last year.

I have also included my reply to John below.

Geoff.

A request recently from Alan Taylor who posted a couple of photos of 6G men on a 5X engine on

a Holyhead train.

Sadly Les Nevitt; passed away about 12 months ago.

The fireman in the picture is Glyn Jones ..living in happy retirement in Blaenau Ffestiniog, he left the railway

shortly after the photo was taken to work at Trawsfynydd power station.

Les was six years older than Glyn.

There are other pictures of both men on your site a few in steam days, and a few in the reunion pages ..

Also they are both in the loco lists of 1962, Les in the passed firemen list and Glyn on the firemen list.

Hope this might help Alan Taylor.

John Kirwood.

p.s. I was lucky to find the request from Alan Taylor as I usually only open into the latest news page.

John.

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Hi John, Many thanks for the information on Les Nevitt. I was so sorry to hear that he was no longer with us. Another link with the past broken! I will pass it on to Alan Taylor and also publish your email on the NEWSPAGE. As regards the appeal for information on Les Nevitt being published on the NORTH WALES COAST STEAM page as against the NEWSPAGE, I apologise for this, but the reason for it is that I am rapidly running out of space on the NEWSPAGE and my ISP is very strict on this, so larger files like photo's can no longer appear on the NEWSPAGE in case I exceed the allotted space. I am in the process of creating a new page along the lines of BULLETIN BOARD or NEWSPAGE (part two) [haven't decided yet] so as I can start including larger files in this important section.

Regards Geoff.

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May 24th 2008.

An email from Tony Higgs and my reply are reproduced below. Tony is researching the history of
Monument Lane engine shed (21E). He has added some interesting detail on summer Saturday workings to Llandudno and also some detail on an ex-Llandudno Junction driver Les Jones.
If anyone can help with this research please let me know and I will pass it on to Tony.
Many thanks for your email Tony.

Dear Geoff,

Enjoyed my browse around your excellent site. I am researching the history of Monument Lane engine shed in Birmingham and that shed used to have regular workings to Llandudno, particularly on Summer Saturdays. In the 1950s the trains were normally worked by one of the three Compounds at Monument Lane. I'm also assured that one of the drivers in the 1950s, Les Jones, was an ex Llandudno Jct man.

I'd also like to contact the team behind the Gordon Coltas photographic collection. Would you mind putting me in touch please.

Many thanks and keep up the good work.

Best wishes

Tony Higgs

Hello Tony, Many thanks for your contact and kind words. I wish you well with your research of Monument Lane. The people you need to contact are:
Coltas Trust, 120 Hayhurst Avenue Middlewich Cheshire CW10 0BD.

EMAIL: pa.suter@tiscali.co.uk

Regards Geoff.

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May 6th 2008.

A very interesting email from Keith Stewart of Greater Manchester and my reply to him are reproduced below.

Dear Geoff.,

Just been browsing through your really excellent site. I grew up at Waverton, near Chester in the fifties. At that time I spent many, many hours at Waverton and on summer Saturday mornings trains passed in rapid succession towards Chester and the coast from around 0900 to well into the afternoon. In the opposite direction it seemed to get busy from around 1000 onwards but it never seemed quite so intense, but presumably the flows must have balanced out.

One point if I may (I may be telling you something you already know - if so apologies) but not all trains that displayed a reporting number on the front were 'specials' as opposed to summer dated trains. A signalman at Waverton once explained to me that 'W55 B' was the 0920 Crewe to Holyhead and that the suffix 'B' indicated Bangor or beyond. Of course the vast majority of trains went to Llandudno, i.e. those without such a suffix. It wasn't unknown for trains to build up trying to get through Chester which would result in trains held at Christleton (open Summer Saturday only), Waverton, Tattenhall Jn. and so on. Once that happened it would go on for an hour or more, until the service started to thin a bit.

Talking of reporting numbers, apparently up to number 499 were scheduled trains and 500 onwards specials. A fairly regular afternoon relief train from Euston to Llandudno was W949. 'W' indicated trains starting in the Western division of the LMR, 'C' the Central divisions and 'M' the Midland division.

On one occasion, right in the middle of all these passenger trains came a loose coupled train of export cars for Birkenhead docks, clunking along behind a WD 2-8-0. The signalman told me this train was urgently wanted at Birkenhead for the ship, but you can image the queue of trains following! Bliss for such as me but it must have been a pain for trains crews and their passengers.

I worked on the railways from 1962-65 and on more that one occasion attended lectures somewhere in the 6G complex; in those days one just got off the train and wandered across the tracks, as per previously given directions. Imagine that today, sometimes in the dark with far more movements and before HV clothing was even thought of!

Keep up the good work.

Regards,

Keith Stewart.

(Greater Manchester)

Hi Keith, Many thanks for your very informative email which I'm sure will be of great interest to site visitors. I must admit that I was under the impression that engines displaying a reporting number were indeed "specials" so I found this information very interesting also. Thanks also for relating your memories of those "steam days" that will be of great interest to site visitors.

Regards Geoff.

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May 6th 2008.

An email received from Jeremy Suter is reproduced below. Jeremy has formed a photographic trust,
with others, dedicated to the work of the late Gordon Coltas who we featured on this website with the
"Gordon Coltas Postcards" page. Please contact this website if you wish to purchase or enquire about
any of Gordon Coltas's photographs.

My reply to Jeremy is also reproduced below.

Dear Geoff,

Just a quick note, I found your website by typing in Gordon Coltas in Google. I am the current holder of his negatives along with 6 other people we have formed the Gordon Coltas Photographic trust and are now making prints from his negatives available. Myself (Jeremy Suter) Mike Bentley and Eddie Johnson are doing the printing If you get any enquiries, please pass on my details.

Jeremy.

Hi Jeremy,

Many thanks for your email and I wish you success with the trust. Gordon was a unique photographer and deserves recognition for his work which may now be forthcoming through your efforts. I will publish this email on the NEWSPAGE and if I receive any enquiries I will pass them on to you.

Regards Geoff

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April 18th 2008.

An email just received from Roger Bennett is reproduced below. Thanks for the kind words Roger and
I'm so glad you enjoyed the site. As regards the photo's and notes you mention, it would be great to
include them on 6G.

Regards Geoff.

Hi Geoff

Just seen some of the 6G website and must tell you what a pleasure it's been to browse. I grew up in Faversham, Kent, and steam was eliminated as early as 1959 following electrification. However, my Grandparents owned a small house at the Junction, and I bunked 6G a number of times in 1965/6 (as a mid-teenager) on visits. So much in fact, I came to regard it as my 'home' shed.

Fortunately, I still have my notes of shed visits, + black & white prints and colour slides.

Let me know if you want any details of my stuff, and I'll attempt to supply.

I've ordered a copy of the D.R. Jones book advertised on the site.

Congratulations on the site.

Regards Roger Bennett

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March 19th 2008.

An email and an appeal for some corroboration of the points raised is reproduced below from Ian McKellar.
If anyone can throw any light on some of Ian's recollections please send your responses through the
email link on the HOMEPAGE.

Two visits to Llandudno Junction stick in my mind.

1) in late July 63, visited the shed remembering in the scrap line a large no of 2-6-2-Ts - any indication of which ones?

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Below is a list of predominantly 2-6-2-Ts in the stored engines line along the sidings at 6G in March 1963, supplied by John Powell, and published on the 6G ALLOCATED ENGINES page.
These are probably the engines Ian remembers from his visit in July 1963. (Geoff)

March 2^nd 1963. Stored engines along the sidings at 6G (line order)

44686	44687	43618	44738	44739	44740	52119	40083	40086	40085
40093	40122	40185	40202	40138	40635

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2) About the 3rd week of July 1965 copped No 70000 Britannia on 6G shed- if I remember rightly she had a not be moved sign and had been like that for some time. Any idea why she was there? (I was used at that time to A4s and Coronations (just departed) and Black 5s on my local line so a southern Brit was v rare for me.

3) In August 67, I was on the city wall at Chester and amazed to see a Jubilee coming off the North Wales line light engine- any thoughts on which one and what she was doing?

Regards

Ian McKellar

West Kirby,

Wirral

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March 1st 2008.

More response to the appeal by Gwenda from Pwllheli regarding the
North Wales Radio Land Cruise trains.

The map of the route and an article describing the trains was sent in by John Powell,
and are shown below.

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February 28th 2008.

The Llangollen railway's Patriot Gala in April will officially launch the new-build project.

Steam Railway magazine announced that it's readers had narrowly voted for the name
"The Unknown Warrior" by a small margin over "Remembrance" (which was my choice.)

Patriot Project leader David Bradshaw told Steam Railway
"The name chosen will resonate with every patriot from all nations. It is universal and deeply
poignant - a perfect name around which we can all rally."

The Patriot Gala will take place at Llangollen Railway between April 18th - 20th.
It will include the official launch of the project and the whole new-build team will
be available all weekend.

David Bradshaw said that the project will achieve charitable status
in late March and he urges anyone interested to
"come along and see us and chat about what we have got planned"

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February 21st 2008.

An email from Clive Hughes of Sheringham in Norfolk is reproduced below. He gives some detail about the
North Wales Radio Land Cruise trains which Gwenda of Pwllheli had asked for below (February 19th 2008).

Many thanks Clive for your response and thanks also for some of the wonderful memories
you relate in your email.

Geoff

Re the enquiry from Gwenda on the North Wales Radio Land Cruise trains.

I suggest she tracks down a book called ‘Locomotive Headboards – The Complete Story’ by Dave Peel. (on Amazon for £16.50).

I borrowed it from my local library here in Norfolk a few weeks ago.

A superb book with lots of details about the North Wales Radio Land Cruise trains and other North Wales named trains. It includes dates pictures and a brief background to the route and rolling stock used. Another highlight is some paragraphs on the launch of the ‘Welsh Dragon’ complete with young girls in Welsh costume standing under the smokebox of a 412xxx at Rhyl.

I was brought up in Mochdre and spent most summer holidays between 1957-61 trainspotting at the Station Road bridge next to the Abattoir. I remember the NWRLC train coming through and with its mixture of carriage stock and unusual locos was worth seeing for a 10 year just starting to get to grips with an Ian Allan.

What reminds me most of the NWRLC was a double headed GWR 2251 class – never seen before (or since !) passing through and heading for the Junction late in the day. In the book I refer to, there is picture of 2x2251’s at Pwllheli (if I recall correctly) at the end of a trip. Is it the trip I saw I ask?

Other specials worth looking out for was ‘The Snowdonian’ which always had a 6H Bangor tank taking the train back to Rhyl around 7pm.

The Irish Mail, the 11.07 and 10’o clock flyer (through the Bay), and Emerald Isle Express, about 8.50am – just before going into school at Brompton Avenue bridge are lovely memories.

My other memory and a confession. Acquiring the 6G shed plate off 40635 when on the scrap line which my mum later threw in the skip when we moved house. I was in my teens and girls were more important !

Regards and thanks for the wonderful memories from your regularly visited website.

Clive Hughes Sheringham Norfolk

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February 19th 2008.

An email appeal, from Gwenda of Pwllheli, asking for any information on the Rail Land Cruise trains
of the 1950's is reproduced below. Gwenda worked in the buffet car of these trains and would like any information on them. I must admit I hadn't heard of these trains but they must have been a great
attraction for tourists.

If anyone can help please send your emails through the link on the HOMEPAGE. (Geoff)

Hello Geoff, this is a shot in the dark, hope you won't mind me writing to you.

I wonder if you would have any information going back around the 1956/57 era, a Land Cruise running from Pwllheli to Rhyl via Barmouth, Bala, Corwen, etc, and home along the coast after approx a two hour stop in Rhyl? ... I used to work in the buffet car on those cruises, I think they ran on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I remember that I did two seasons on this Land Cruise, I'd be about15 then, a lifetime ago! .... I'm looking for maybe a program sheet of the Land Cruise, anything really, or the exact years in which they ran. It was indeed happy times and a great trip up to Rhyl. I wish I was able to trace the girl who did the commentary on the trips, she used to come up in Criccieth, unfortunately I cannot remember her name. The train drivers I'm sure are no longer with us but one or two of the fireman might still be around somewhere.

Much appreciated should you have any info, I live in Pwllheli. Thank you!

Gwenda.

February 20th 2008

Another email from Gwenda, received after I published the above email, is reproduced below which gives a little more information about the Land Cruise trains and also clarifies the dates when she worked as probably the early sixties not the mid-fifties as previously stated. Gwenda has also sent in a British Railways poster which publicizes the trains but unfortunately it is very small and all my efforts to enlarge it, enough to make it readable, have failed so I have decided not to publish it.

Hi again Geoff, thanks for getting back to me. I'm trying to remember when it was that I actually worked on these cruises, at first I thought it was the mid 50's, but probably it was a bit later around 1960/61. I wonder how many years they actually ran for. Yes indeed they were very popular with holidaymakers and locals alike, many would board the train at the Butlins Holiday camp just outside Pwllheli, it was a most enjoyable run a great day out I think. Be great if anyone has any literature to show. Unfortunately I cannot enlarge the one below >>

Many thanks Geoff :) Gwenda

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February 13th 2008.

Andrew Laws, of the LMS Patriot Project, tells me that the formal launch of the project will take place at the
Llangollen railway's Spring Gala between April 18th and April 20th 2008.

The Patriot Project website has published the details which are reproduced below.

News

The Patriot Gala - Llangollen Railway, 18th - 20th April 2008

The LMS Patriot Project is pleased to announce 'The Patriot Gala' at the Llangollen Railway. The three day event will take place during the Llangollen Spring Gala starting on Friday 18th April.

The LMS Patriot Project will formally be launched at Llangollen and supporters are invited to make regular contributions to the project - the first LMS newbuild. The new Patriot will be assembled at the Llangollen Railway Works so it is appropriate that the first public gala takes place at the Llangollen Railway. The Spring Gala will have an LMS theme honouring the missing Fowler engine. Visiting LMS engines are expected to include 4F 0-6-0 no. 44222 and Stanier 2-6-0 no. 42968. Llangollen based 'Black 5' no. 44806 should also be in steam together with other engines from the home fleet.

A number of artefacts associated with Patriots or items that will be used for the project will be on display including the recently discovered chimney pattern, a driving wheel pattern, newly cast smokebox number plate and Patriot nameplates. Patriot photographs and paintings will also be exhibited.

The LMS Patriot Project invites all LMS and Patriot supporters to the event which promises to be a great weekend for all steam enthusiasts. We will provide updates and further information soon! But in the meanwhile please keep the weekend of 18th - 20th April free and we look forward to seeing you at Llangollen!

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January 31st 2008.

I published an email appeal from Ken Passmore on December 22nd 2007 asking for any information on an email contributor to this site named Austin R Rimmer who was a school friend of Ken's who he was trying to contact. Due to a computer crash in 2004 I had lost the email address of Austin so I posted the appeal for help.
Ken has done some research and it would seem that sadly, Austin Rimmer is now deceased.

Below are the emails from Ken and my replies to him.

Email received December 18th 2007

Hi
You'll probably guess from my email address that my father was Reg Passmore, a fireman, passed fireman and finally a driver who worked in the Junction for 42 years. It was obviously as a result of his influence that I was a keen trainspotter spending many hours at the bridge over the railway at the bottom of Queen's Road. The highlight of the day was the 11.17(?) train from Holyhead to Euston which was invariably driven by a named engine. We had to be there to see that as often as we could. If it rained my friend (Jeffrey Price) had a pigeon hut on a railway allotment opposite the station. My father had an allotment next to the signal box so that was also a good spot to watch the trains from.
I've looked at your web pages a few times but I've only just seen an email sent to you in April 2004 from an old school friend, Austin Rimmer, who talks about his Taid who worked at 6G. I would very much like to get in touch with him and was wondering if you still had his email address. If so could you either let me know what it is or send him my email address and tell him that I would like to get in touch with him.
Regards
Ken Passmore

Email sent December 22nd 2007

Hi Ken, Thanks for your email. Unfortunately I had a complete computer crash in late 2004 and I lost a lot of data including Austin Rimmer's email address. However I will publish your email on the NEWSPAGE in the hope that he sees it and makes contact. I will let you know if we have any success.

Regards Geoff.

Email received January 30th 2008

Hi Geoff
Thanks for your reply.
I did a search and found your account of my email. However I also found using Google an account from Kent University which announced the death of a number of old students including one named Austin R Rimmer. I have subsequently confirmed that Austin did in fact go to Kent University and his middle name is Richard. It seems very unlikely that this is just coincidence and it looks as if I should have started my search a few years earlier.
Thanks anyway.
Regards
Ken

Email sent January 30th 2008

Hi Ken,
Thanks for your email.
It would appear that your enquiries have resulted in the conclusion that the Austin R Rimmer who was at Kent University is probably your old school friend who emailed this site in April 2004 and is now probably sadly deceased.
What a sad end to your search.

Many thanks for this information,

Regards Geoff.

Just after I sent this reply to Ken Passmore, by a strange coincidence I received the following email from Brian Jones, who was Austin Rimmer's cousin, and he confirms that Austin passed away in 2006.

Hi Geoff,

I’ve just read an email in the news section from Ken Passmore asking to be put in touch with Austin Rimmer. My cousin was called Austin Rimmer whose parents were Mildred and Jack, both now deceased, and lived in Llandudno Junction. He went to John Bright Grammar School in Llandudno. If this is the same Austin Rimmer, he passed away very suddenly about 2 years (ish) ago at his home near London. If this isn’t the same one then I apologize, so if you could pass on this information to Ken Passmore for his benefit.

Keep up the good work with the site.

With thanks

Brian Jones

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January 29th 2008.

Another email from Terry Jones is reproduced below. Thanks for the contact Terry and I am glad the
website provides some memories from your past. This was the original aim of this site and that objective
still remains today. I hope someone can remember your father in law, from those days at 6G, and maybe
provide some detail which I can pass on to you.

I have visited your site many times now, looking at the old photo’s of steam from those heady days of the 60s in and around 6G and North Wales. I view this site as a Time Portal to the past with information regarding the movement of steam locomotives clearly logged, that at the time as a train spotter from that time in the early 60s I did not know. I wish also to add my father in law worked at 6G from 1961 having moved from Gloucester to live in Llandudno at that time. He was called Sydney Budd a Carriage and Wagon repairer who would visit many depots fixing Rolling stock between Chester and Holyhead. Sid retired in the early 80s and lives not far from us here in Chester. I wonder if former colleagues on this site can recall my father in law who also worked on the rail wagons at Llanberis Hydro Electric Dam.

Terry Jones

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January 24th 2008.

An email from Terry Jones is reproduced below. Thanks for the memories Terry.

I came across an e mail on your 6G website, which caught my eye regarding Roy Harris’s (reply July 07) regarding Conwy station and goods trains, and especially two loco’s 44525 and 44389. On our Holidays during school I would visit Bryn Morfa on Conwy Morfa around 1960-62 to watch these steam trains shunting goods wagons just after the 11.17 Holyhead Irish Mail would go thundering through the morfa. Sometimes these fowler Tankers I saw uncoupled wagons near to San Parry’s bridge, leave goods wagon’s on the main line and would collect scrap metal from Sean Hughes’s scrap yard using a spur line on the Morfa then couple up to the rest of the train and move on to Penmaenmawr afterwards. We used to sit on a small bridge very close to the Railway line as the loco’s would draw level with the bridge many a time we would see the fireman/driver having a large mug of tea. I did notice at that time 44525 would do one day working and the next it would be 44389 but both these loco’s were from 6G.

Yes, happy memories watching these work horses of steam trains during my childhood days.

Terry Jones.

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January 14th 2008.

THE PATRIOT PROJECT

The group announced that of the 100-plus names suggested to them, the five below have been drawn up as a short list. They wanted to maintain the patriotic link with the original engines, but also consider something memorable and relevant today. Project leader David Bradshaw told Steam Railway magazine that they wanted to carry on the original spirit of the class and it would be nice if the locomotive could effectively act as a memorable mobile memorial.

THE SHORTLISTED NAMES

PATRIOT
HERO
THE UNKNOWN WARRIOR
WILFRED OWEN
REMEMBRANCE

Votes should be sent to the project by February 10th 2008 using one of the following methods.

By email: lms-patriot@hotmail.co.uk

By post: Via Steam Railway. More details on the project can be found at www.lms-patriot.org.uk

The Patriot Project is to be formally launched at the Llangollen Railway's Spring Gala.

The event will have an LMS theme to honour the 'missing' Fowler engine.

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January 11th 2008.

I have just received this email from John Kirwood in which he clarifies the details regarding the engine arrangers book given to him by 6G driver Tommy Hughes (Tommy Bodorgan) and below this email, is my reply.

Geoff.

There is some confusion about the engine arrangers book, it was the Llandudno not the junction arrangers book, used weekends during the summer timetable and the busy times, Bank Holidays. etc. At present the book is doing its rounds with my old mates from 6G who are all eager to study and digest with relish its content. I think that a lot of forgotten memories will be jogged by its perusal.

Regards John.

Hi John, Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression it was the Junction but even so, as you say, it still holds a lot of unique local interest and after your mates have passed it back to you I would be happy to pick it up from you to copy detail for the site if you are agreeable. I think it would reach a wide and very appreciative audience. I know that I would love to turn the pages of all that history. What do you think?

Regards Geoff.

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January 10th 2008.

An email from ex-6G worker John Kirwood is reproduced below in which he offers some answers and detail on the query posed by Gwyn Griffiths of Crewe, who's email was published on this page on December 18th 2007.

Gwyn Griffith's request dated 18.12.2007,about the identity of the others in the photo with his father, namely Meirion, Bryn, Len, Idris and John. I could help here, but without looking at the picture I cannot be positive.

Meirion.

Meirion Davies, son of Stan Davies a driver at the junction, Meirion was a passed cleaner at the junction and was the fireman on the crab at Penmaenmawr when it was hit by Scot 46119 on the Irish Mail. Meirion had just left the crab before the accident. The crab driver Ellis Griffith Roberts was injured in the accident. Meirion left the railway some time after.

Bryn

Bryn Owen was a shed man, he came from the Llanrwst/Trefriw area, he sadly passed away a few years ago.

Len.

L.M.Evans, started on the railway 31.12.1945,and was the last man promoted to driver during the steam era, he sadly passed away 1985 or 1986.

Idris
There was an Idris who was a shed man at that time, he left the railway when the shed shut.

John.

There were three named "John's" at this time, all in the footplate grade.

J.T.Roberts(John Gyffin) started 6.10.47,

J.Owen started 12.4.48,

J Thomas started 8.8.49

The last two Johns were six footers, with J.T. Roberts quite a bit shorter, all had started a little later than O.L.Griffiths who started on the railway on 27.5.47, J.Owen passed away a few years ago.

That's the best I can do.

Regards John.

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December 23rd 2007.

I have just received this interesting email from Ken Passmore who's father was Reg Passmore, a 6G driver
and fireman for 42 years. Ken has related some of his memories and has asked if I could put him in touch with Austin Rimmer who emailed into the site in April 2004 as he was a school friend of Ken's and he would like to make contact with him. Unfortunately, as I explained to Ken, I had a complete computer crash late 2004 and I lost a lot of data including my email address book which contained Austin Rimmer's email address. So if you read this Austin please get in touch with me and I will put you in touch with Ken.

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December 19th 2007.

An email from David Hughes, thanking John Kirwood for the information he sent regarding the 6G
coaling stage (see below) and my original email to David.

My email to David.
Hi David, I have just received this email from ex-6G worker John Kirwood (see December 18th 2007 below)
in response to your appeal for detail on 6G's coaling stage for your modelling project.

I hope this helps.

Regards Geoff.

David's reply.(December 19th 2007)
Thanks for e-mail, please thank John for the information. I will check out the Library. A chap called Eric Sawford has some photo books in print which show snippets of 6G, besides the locos the interesting parts include the b/down crane, b/down coaches and ex-LNWR tenders used for sludge, some with LMS showing through the paint in 1963. Hope the extra info is useful for anyone else looking into the history of 6G.

Thank you again

David Hughes

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December 18th 2007.

An email from John Kirwood is reproduced below, in response to the request for detail on the 6G coaling stage by David Hughes published on this page on August 21st 2007.

There is an excellent picture of the Bletchley coalhole on page 44 of the LMS 150 book by Patrick Whitehouse and David St John Thomas. To me it looks very similar to the 6G coalhole.
The hole in the sidewall was never used for coaling engines. This was where the coalmen used to lean
out of during the quieter moments with their woodbines. It sometimes was very smoky in the coalhole;
the sidewall hole was a great aid for ventilation.

The engine line through the coalhole was on the same level as the ashpit line.
The coal wagons line was on a higher level, with the tops of the 16 ton coal wagons being nearly
level with the tender tops, which made the coalman’s job a little!! easier.

Its unbelievable looking back to those far off days how many tons of coal a man could shift in a working day.

Hope this helps David Hughes.

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December 18th 2007.

An email from Gwyn Griffiths of Crewe is reproduced below. Thanks for your contact Gwyn. As regards the 6G engine arrangers book you mention, I agree it would be great if we could get some of the detail published and I have suggested this to John Kirwood and I will pass on your comments to him and see what he thinks.

Been on your excellent site again - couple of points:

a) fascinated by the discovery of the Engine Arrangers Book for the Junction. Can we get it published? There's a book I would buy. I remember my father coming home from work (around 1963-64), if he had been on a shed turn, with a list of locos to be dealt with - written on a paper towel! Would that we had kept them !!!!! And Tommy Bodorgan was certainly a well-known name in our family!

b) came across a photo - not good enough for reproduction - showing a group of 6G cleaners in the early 1950s. They are identified as:

Owen (my father, Owen Lloyd Griffiths)

Meirion

Bryn

Len

John

Idris

Anybody care to suggest who the others might be?

Gwyn

Crewe

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December 1st 2007.

Brian Roberts emailed in to this site on Mach 28th 2005 asking if anybody could provide actual locomotive numbers that went through Chester on certain dates in 1961. I published the request on this NEWSPAGE
not thinking at the time that there would be a chance after all these years. I am glad to say I was wrong, as I have just received the following detail from Ex 6G worker John Kirwood who unbelievably has acquired the Engine Arrangers book from 6G which was filled in by 6G drivers and given to John Kirwood by one of these
men, T.A Hughes nickname (Tommy Bodorgan).

Many thanks to both of you.

John's email is reproduced below.

Request dated March 28 2005 from Brian Roberts. The following might be a little help for him.

DOWN TRAINS' SATURDAY 29th July 1961.

45524 7.8am ex Wigan, 1D01. 45521 7.15am ex Liverpool 1D02

44838 6.50am ex Walsall 1D03, 45060 6.55am ex Cheadle 1D05

44907 7.42am ex L/Pool 2D70 44830 5.20am ex Leicester 1D07

42714 7.52am ex Manchester 1D08 45058 7.10am ex Stafford 1D13

42857 8.45am ex M/Chester 1D15 45603 6.30am ex Leamington 1D18

45072 7.47am ex Birmingham 1D17 45385 9.23am ex Stoke 1D23

45307 9.5am ex L.Pool 1D20 73096 9.30am ex M/Chester 1D21

45114 8.35am ex B/ham 1D25 45304 9.45am ex M/Chester 1D28

92049 8.50am ex Derby 1D30 44862 10.30am ex L/Pool 1D33

42926 8.4am ex Leicester 1D36 73126 10.20am ex M/Chester 1D35

45645 8.50am ex Leeds 1M47 92008 9.27am ex Derby 1D38

44741 9.3am ex Leeds 1M48 46163 11.10am ex M/Chester 1D44

42771 9.45am ex Bradford 1M90 45438 8.23am ex Cardiff 1M67

45149 11.37am ex M/Chester 1D45 48618 10.37am ex Shefield 1M65

45592 9.18am ex Euston 1D50 45382 12/40pm ex L/Pool 2D70

44987 1/58pm ex Crewe 1D57 45417 1/34pm ex M/Chester1D53

45069 1/55pm ex M/Chester 1D55 42810 11.18am ex Euston 1D57

73070 3/2pm ex Crewe 1D58 44742 3/15pm ex M.Chester

In addition to the above, the following were specials , the departure times were not recorded,
but they would have passed through Chester during the morning and/or into the afternoon
on their way to Llandudno.

45051 ex Smethwick 1Z09 42849 ex Walsall 1D00

45071 ex B/ham 1Z12 45139 ex Coventry 1Z11

42776 ex Derby 1T07 45113 ex Northhampton 1Z63

73096 ex Stechford 1Z18 48346 ex W /ath ?? 1Z62

48407 ex Barnsley 1Z63 44715 ex Coventry 1Z15

75032 ex Warrington 1Z39

All the above engines would have been serviced at the Llandudno facilities where an Engine Arranger was in charge usually Drivers Meurig Roberts or T.A.Hughes (Tommy Bodorgan) At Llandudno there was a turntable, water column, pits,and a few wagons of coal and of course a cabin for the staff which included a coalman, firedropper and a set or two of enginemen..Everybody did their best to get the engines serviced and ready
for their return jobs.

UP TRAINS FROM LLANDUDNO. Saturday 29th July 1961

44679 8.5am To Bradford 1N85, 44728 8.45am to Leicester 1F15

46110 9.5am to Euston 1A25 45198 9.15am to Newcastle 1N82

45043 9.22am to Leamington 1B13 44742 9.45am to Manchester 1C61

46140 10.0am to Euston 1A28 46115 10.7am to Liverpool 1K13

44842 10.15am to Derby 1P17 44917 10.30am to M/Chester 1C65

73093 10.42am to Cardiff 1V56 45430 11.0am to L/Pool 1K16

44740 11.15am to Sheffield 1E20 61151 11.30am to Sheffield 1E21

45524 11.50am to M/Chester 1J03 45521 12/20pm to Euston 1A36

44830 12/55pm to Leicester 1F04 45247 1/5pm to Euston 1A43

45060 1/20pm to Derby 1P19 45139 1/40pm to Derby 1P21

73096/45304cpld 2/0pm to M/Chester 1C82 45114/92049cpld 2/50 to Birmingham 1G27

45149 3/38 to M/Chester 1C86 45307 4/40 pm to Chester

92008 5/10pm to Stoke 1H64 73126 5/30pm to M/Chester 1C89

42771 6/45pm to M/Chester 1C93 45259 7/0pm to B/Head 1D98

44987 7/20pm to Crewe 1K84 42810 7/45pm to M/Chester 182.

SPECIALS

42967 10.22am to Bacup 1Z82 42776 12/40pm to Hadfield 1Z80

45321 1/0pm to Glasgow 1X93 46114 1/54pm to Glasgow 1X94

45603 2/35pm to Coventry 3Z35 44715 4/0pm to Soho Sidings 3Z36

45071 4.35pm to Vauxhall 3Z37 45113 6/0pm to Northhampton 3Z38

45051 6/33pm to Soho Sds 3Z43 45058 7/10 to Coventry 3Z39

42926 8/0pm to Stoke 3Z44 48407 L.E. Chester.

Hopefully some of the above numbers will jog Brian Robert’s memory back to that
Saturday in 1961.

By the way, I started as a cleaner on 24th July 1961 at Llandudno Junction shed. On the Friday 28.7.61 my job was to scrape off the paper numbers off the metal headboards and paste on the new numbers , then line all the headboards along the inside shed wall in a sort of numerical order. The numbers were made waterproof by the simple method of coating them with glue.

All the above train and engine numbers obtained from T.A.Hughes (Tommy Bodorgan's) Engine Arrangers book Llandudno, which Tommy has kindly given me.

John Kirwood.

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November 15th 2007.

LMS PATRIOT PROJECT

Because of the many memories we all have of the Patriot's running along the North Wales coast main line and
the links with 6G plus the several engines in the class named after areas of North Wales, this website wholeheartedly supports the LMS Patriot Project. We will be publishing progress reports of the project and any news items as they become available.

Steam Railway magazine (November 2007) announced a competition to name the "new build" Patriot.
There is a link to the LMS Patriot Project website on the LINKS page.

The text below is taken from the projects website explaining the details of the competition.

LMS Patriot to be named by public and nameplate to be won - November 2007

The November 2nd edition of 'Steam Railway' magazine included a story where readers were asked to decide the identity of the new Patriot. Three nameplates will be made with one going to the competition winner and two eventually fitted to the locomotive. Some names were allocated to Patriots but were never carried and as David Bradshaw said, "There may be others that no-one has ever thought of before".

Readers are asked to send in their ideas along with any donations to the LMS Patriot Project.

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November 6th 2007.

An email from Geoff Owen is reproduced below with an appeal for any information on the line through Abergele, Pensarn, Towyn and Rhyl. Although Geoff has nothing to submit to 6G he has still taken the time to relate some of his memories which I know will bring it all back to many site visitors. I just wish more would follow his example as I have said many times these little anecdotes and personal memories of the wonderful steam days are appreciated and understood by so many of us.
Many thanks for the contact Geoff.

Hi Geoff,

Nothing to submit to your site, but what I would like is your help if possible on information about Abergele and Pensarn station and the stretch of track from the station down through Towyn to Rhyl. I ask this because, as a young boy in the late fifties and early sixties, i have fond memories of staying in Towyn on holiday at Millers Cottage, and on numerous occasions running up onto the footbridge to be engulfed in steam and smoke from a passing loco. We still visit Towyn today and I take my grandson on to the same bridge and tell him about the times grandad spent there watching the trains. Unfortunately it is not the same today as there are no Black fives or class 40s going under the bridge, but I can still think about those times when we stand there, with a smile on my face.

Any help would be gratefully received, keep up the good work on the site, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Regards Geoff Owen.

p.s. Just returned from a short trip to Llandudno, and paid a visit to the site of the old 6g shed.
Hard to believe something so grand once stood there...

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October 19th 2007.

An interesting email from Steve Davis is reproduced below. Thanks for the contact Steve.

Hello Geoff,

Thanks for an interesting website. I was introduced to it by a link on the Llandudno Enthusiasts Forum.

My Father John 'Concho' Davies worked as a fitter at 6G in the 50's & 60's. He served his apprenticeship in Crewe works, and he also worked in the Rhyl sheds for a time.

He still lives in Llandudno but unfortunately does not have a computer. I remember him showing me an old photograph of him and his co-workers re-railing a steam loco after a cat had become stuck in the points at the Junction. Maybe I could get him to send you a copy?

Regards, Steve.

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October 18th 2007.

An email from 6G website visitor Gwyn Griffiths is reproduced below which gives a possible answer to the query posed by John Powell's postcard "find" published on this page on May 30th 2007.

Been browsing your excellent site again.

On News 30 May 2007 there's a photograph of an LNWR building promoting holidays in N Wales, and a request for help in identification.

I wonder if it was a promotional "stand" at an exhibition of some sort. There were certainly similar stands at events like the 1920s British Empire Exhibition.

Gwyn Griffiths

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September 30th 2007.

An email from John Kirwood is reproduced below in which he fills in some detail requested by Steve Morris
(31/08/07) regarding his request for any information on the class 05 diesel shunters that were allocated to 6G
between 1965-1967. As John points out there is a picture of one of these engines (D2607) in the Norman Kneale
gallery (6).

Many thanks for the details John.

When the 05 shunting diesels came to the Junction, steam was still around. There is a picture of one of them in the Norman Kneale galleries inside Junction shed alongside a real engine. The class 05 were not liked, they were weak and had manual gearing. The men preferred steam. In Llandudno 6G they were used for shunting in the yard, also used on the morning Llandudno goods. Another job for them was the morning Abergele /Rhyl trip. They sometimes went to Rhyl for shunting duties , the drivers remember with great amusement that it took about 90 minutes to get there. Their maximum speed was 6 or 7 miles an hour...It's a known fact that one of the shunting link drivers at that time burnt the clutch out on one of them in the yard at the junction. Driver H.E.Roberts remembers going to Mostyn with them a few times , to do some work on the sea wall, this would have been on Sundays every 4 or so weeks. He remembers Curly(J.H.W.Jones) as his mate. As regards their allocation at Holyhead, they would have been too weak to pull the stock from the station up the bank, so they might have been used for freight shunting in the area. They could have also been used on the Holyhead breakwater, which was token used. I don't know much about that line. Hope this is of use to Steve Morris...
Regards, John Kirwood.

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September 5th 2007.

An email from Chris Evans and an appeal for information is reproduced below. If anyone can help Chris please email me at geoff@poole57.freeserve.co.uk

Hello Geoff

I've just been browsing your website again and enjoyed Jim Fenton's spotting memories
from not long after my own holiday recollections.

One subject which is rarely mentioned is the variety of DMUs which appeared in the late 1950s and early 60s. After the original Derby 'Lightweights' appeared in 1956 a succession of the later varieties appeared and there were many re-allocations in the years between 1959 and 1962. Also, some services which were worked by DMUs, such as the 'Welsh Dragon' between Rhyl and Llandudno (which I believe holds the record as BR's shortest distance regular named-train route) and the Amlwch branch services occasionally reverted to steam haulage.

I wonder whether any of your regular correspondents - or indeed web-browsers - have any record of which units were running from Llandudno Junction in the summer of 1961? I know that many spotters of the day recorded only steam loco numbers but maybe somebody at that time made a note of DMU numbers too, so that they could underline them in their ABCs!

Any help would be most welcome as I am replacing some of my DMUs on my model railway layout with Bachmann Class 108s which have recently been introduced - there are a couple of photos of them (amongst the steam ones!) on my layout website: www.llandudnojunction.fotopic.net if anybody is interested.

Keep up the good work!

Chris Evans

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August 21st 2007.

An email from Roy Harris is reproduced below thanking John Kirwood for his help with the queries about the Conway goods yard which were published on August 15th 2007 on this page.

Hi Geoff,

Many thanks for your message.

I am very grateful for John's comments. They are very informative and just the sort of information I was looking for. Instead of aimlessly running the latest model up and down, I can now envisage the poor model crew standing soaking in their cab as they head out up the coast.

I haven't got around to smaller details like signals yet, but will bear it in mind